- What’s all this about?
- How will Google act publically?
- Ok, but what’s really their plan?
- How will Google spin this?
- What if other browsers don’t follow Google with Dart?
- What does Brendan Eich think about all this?
- What’s Alex Russell’s response to the leak?
- What’s all this about? #
- How will Google act publically? #
- Ok, but what’s really their plan? #
- How will Google spin this? #
- While Dart is catching on with other browsers, Google will promote it as the language for serious web development on the web platform.
- What if other browsers don’t follow Google with Dart? #
- Google’s own Lars Bak has promised to “sweet talk” the other browser vendors.
- What does Brendan Eich think about all this? #
- From Brendan’s blog:
From Hacker News:
Here is something that the Google leak about Dart (née Dash) telegraphs: many Googlers, especially V8 principals, do not like JS and don’t believe it can evolve “in time” (whatever that might mean — and Google of course influences JS’s evolution directly, so they can put a finger on the scale here).
They’re wrong, and I’m glad that at least some of the folks at Google working in TC39 actually believe in JS — specifically its ability to evolve soon enough and well enough to enable both more predictable performance and programming in the large.
There’s a better-is-better bias among Googlers, but the Web is a brutal, shortest-path, Worse-is-Better evolving system.
I’ve spent the last 16 years betting on the Web. Evolving systems can face collapses, die-offs, exigent circumstances. I don’t see JS under imminent threat of death due to such factors, though. Ironic that Google would put a death mark on it.
“Even Brendan Eich admitted…”. As if I would not expect, nay demand, that Gilad and Lars would do better -- much better -- than JS!
For the record, I’m not worried about JS being replaced by a better language. I am working to do that within Ecma TC39, by evolving JS aggressively.
The leaked Google doc’s assertion that this is impossible and that a “clean break” is required to make significant improvements is nonsense, a thin rationale for going it alone rather than cooperating fully.
The big issue I have with Dart, which [some] seem to consider inconsequential, is whether Google forks the web developer community, not just its own paid developers, with Dart, and thereby fragments web content.
A Dart to JS compiler will never be “decent” compared to having the Dart VM in the browser. Yet I guarantee you that Apple and Microsoft (and Opera and Mozilla, but the first two are enough) will never embed the Dart VM.
So “Works best in Chrome” and even “Works only in Chrome” are new norms promulgated intentionally by Google. We see more of this fragmentation every day. As a user of Chrome and Firefox (and Safari), I find it painful to experience, never mind the political bad taste.
Ok, counter-arguments. What’s wrong with playing hardball to advance the web, you say? As my blog tries to explain, the standards process requires good social relations and philosophical balance among the participating competitors.
Google’s approach with Dart is thus pretty much all wrong and doomed to leave Dart in excellent yet non-standardized and non-interoperable implementation status. Dart is GBScript to NaCl/Pepper’s ActiveG.
Could Google, unlike Microsoft ten or so years ago, prevail? Only by becoming the new monopoly power on the web. We know how that story ends.
- What’s Alex Russell’s response to the leak? #
- From Alex’s blog:
Erik Arvidsson, Mark Miller, Waldemar Horwat, Andreas Rossberg, Nebojša Ćirić, Mark Davis, Jungshik Shin and I attend TC39 meetings, work on implementations, and try to push JS forward in good faith. And boy, does it need a push.